Might be an unpopular opinion? IDK. Modern Japanese car companies suck.

"Kanaric" (Kanaric1) 05/28/2016 at 18:25 • Filed to: None

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The fact that Cadillac makes a proper Toyota Supra successor, for the same price those were in 1995, is one reason why my being a fan of Japanese cars ends at the dawn of this century. I LOVE 80s and 90s Japanese cars, especially the tuner cars. However I drive a Mustang GT because they are irrelevant. Even with the Focus RS now the STI is old, outdated, and irrelevant. I never driven a Golf R but even people give that performance props over the STI and Subaru is what I consider the ONLY Japanese company still doing what they did in the 90s. Let’s look at the rest of them:

Mitsubishi: Dead. No further discussion. Might be used to peddle Renaults in the US.

Nissan: Every new era of vehicles from this company gets progressively worse. KNOWS that they need to make a downsized more sporty Z car but every time they discuss this they kill it and make another pseudo luxury vehicle. Introduced the R35 GTR to do what Honda did with the NSX in the early 90s and change the supercar game. A halo car is supposed to trickle down right? It doesn’t. All their grassroots enthusiasts marques are gone. Sentra SE-R, 240SX, etc. All that remains is the ages old 370Z with no replacement spotted. This company is malaise personified.

Basically they make appliances now. If I want an appliance i’m buying a Toyota or a Honda.

The 370Z was never really hearlded and they still haven’t made a replacement. It’s basically an improved 350z which came out in 2002. Still many of the same issues. Still running that V6 when the competition either went turbo or v8. The next Genesis Coupe has been spotted with a twin turbo v6 offering. They get it. They get that if I spend $30k and I can pick between a Mustang GT with 420hp that handles awesome and is a budget M3 fighter vs a 370Z that needs a lot of work i’m going to take the Mustang.

Toyota: Extreme focus on luxury cars. No performance engines on the lower rung aside the one in the FRS which they needed subarus help to develop. Remember the 2ZZ? 3SGE? Used to have performance trims of cars like the Corolla. Now it’s all commuter appliances. Spends years and millions on developing a supercar most people would never see let alone own. Used to make affordable performance cars like the MR2 and proper M3 fighters like the Supra. Now cannot compete. Malaise.

The old lexuses of the 90s were hearlded as BMW fighters. They still are TRYING to be bmw fighters. It’s like all progress stopped in 1996 for this company. Meanwhile decay and malaise has fully set in on the toyota brand. All people wanted from them is the MR2 Turbo or something like toyota’s take on a S13-S15 Silvia and we got the FRS which seems more like the US 240Sx. I shouldn’t feel like their equivalent car from the 90s is better. No company I feel like that except a Japanese one. 1M/M2 > E36 M3, 2016 Mustang GT > 1996 Mustang GT, etc. I don’t need to go on. I feel like we got the shitty USDM version of the FRS and there is an awesome turbo JDM version with brembos or sumitomo calipers, awesome non-watered down suspension, and cool gadgets. However even the cars they sell in JDM land are shit now. I buy new cars because modern ones are BETTER than cars from the 90s. With the FRS? I feel like if I imported a Silvia K’s I would have a way better car. I mean my Skyline GTS-T already is.

Mazda: Mazda keeps playing with our heartstrings. Says there will be new Mazdaspeeds. Seemingly vaporware. Toys with showing us rotary concepts every 3 years. Vaporware. All the while since their split with Ford THEY released the Mazdaspeed 2 people were asking for (Fiesta ST) and the Mazdaspeed 3 replacement. PLUS they gave us an AWD car which mazda never gave us (MS6 is not it) that is for sure better than the STI that Subaru still gives us. Still have the Miata though.

Now let’s look at the other end of things:

Cadillac: Int he 80s and 90s when the Japanese companies were making the best shit ever these people were just making shit. Now this ATS-V is basically what Toyota gave us with the Supra and basically what Toyota was promising with Lexus. Never delivered on any of it and CADILLAC of all companies is hearlded by some to be BETTER than BMW now. Look at where Cadillac came from compared to where Toyota came from. Toyota ALWAYS made decent cars and they were at an apex in the 90s. Cadillac SUDDENLY within a period of 10 years became among the top tier of desirable performance in their price range.

Pontiac & later Chevy: Pontiac imported some Holdens, they created a new platform based on cars from down there and shared it with the Camaro. Hit the 400hp mark in inexpensive cars early. Really this company is leagues ahead of Japanese companies. In 2006 you could get a 400hp V8 GTO from Pontiac. Just 3 years earlier Nissan embarrassed these companies with their near 300hp n/a V6 never to progress again in the same price range.

Ford: Remember in the 90s when you played Gran Turismo and you used the JDM cars and were like “I wish we got these here”? That is what this company builds now. 3 different hot hatches one with AWD and a pony car with turbo 4 or v8 that can be had $25k-$30k. In that point same as GM with the Camaro. The Supra at it’s cheapest was $40,000 in the early 90s. Japan’s equivalent cars now would be laughed out of the track in a comparison.

BMW: Twin turbo straight 6 at $40-$60k is this companies bread and butter for 10 years now. I can get a 135i for $16k used. Toyota thinks their GS350 competes with this? Embarrassing. To think this was the formula for the Supra which they haven’t made since the 90s and BMW has been making a car like this for 10 years.

I won’t even mention honda. They seem to be taking the Mazda router of being the tease with playing with the S1000 and now the S2000 and talking about their new Civic Type-R. At least the Type-R exists overseas. I was never a big honda fan though as my favorite “JDM” vehicles were the Silvia, Skyline, 300ZX, Supra, RX7, STI, EVO, Pulsar GTIR, etc. The new NSX sure spits in the face of the original though. Notice all the Nissan I mentioned. I really liked that company in the past, they are dead to me today. Still like a lot of things from them pre-2002 though.

All I know is when the ATS-V Coupe can be had for $20k i’m buying one. There is a modern car renaissance going on and the Japanese companies are completely left out.

I expect next-gen Hyundais and Kias are going to be firmly on this trend as well. If the new Genesis Coupe is a twin turbo v6 pseudo throwback to the 300ZX I will get one. WHEN Hyundai obtains a better performance name than Toyota, inevitability at this point, I will laugh myself to the dealership.

Sorry for the kind of trolly writing style if you are a modern Japanese car fan but every once and a while I see a new car like this ATS-V and I get outraged at the companies I used to love.

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Big Bubba Ray > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 18:31

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Hot take.

Supreme Chancellor and Glorious Leader SaveTheIntegras > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 18:32

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The ATS-V is not a supra successor, not even in spirit

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 18:35

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not for canada - australian in disguise > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 18:35

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are you IDRIVEACL63AMG

samssun > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 18:40

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I agree with everything stated here, but I think Honda & Toyota gave up on making enjoyable cars more than a decade ago, while Nissan/Infiniti changed the car game.

350Z should be the “jalop” go-to car, striking the right balance between gutless handlers like the Miata and heavy accelerators like Mustang/Camaro. The 370Z added power, torque, mileage, handling, and braking while losing weight, which never happens.

The G35 offered the world 90% of a BMW for 80% of the price, and set the stage for Hyundai’s revolution. Sure G37 was nothing game changing, but it’s still the baseline for what your money can get you before you drive a 3 Series, C Class, or ATS.

CB > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 18:42

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Whelp, there were words, probably put together into sentences, but what the fuck did I just read.

Also, why did you put Pontiac in the “doing something right” category? They’re dead.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 18:44

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Have you ever tried decaf?

Also, go drive the GS F. It’s the best Lexus I have ever driven.

Probenja > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 18:50

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I mean... They at least are trying:

Japanese car companies I guess feel like there is not a market anymore for sporty cars, that is why they are catering to the suv market which is the money maker nowadays.

MLGCarGuy > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 05/28/2016 at 18:55

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That’s not a Celica.

LongbowMkII > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 18:58

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When you can get an ATS-v for 20k you’ll get one?

Thanks for proving the Japanese manufacturers right. There’s not a market worth the development costs. It's not worth the time money or effort to appeal to people who will buy their products 10 years from now.

Sam > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 19:02

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Counterpoint: Enthusiast cars hemorrhage money; commuter cars (specifically SUVs) print money. Why would a company give a shit about losing a few enthusiast customers by not making enthusiast cars? Toyota sold 11,315 Supras between 1993 and 1998. Meanwhile, Toyota sold 48,256 Camrys in just 2012. If you were in the business of making money, which would you kill and which would you keep?

Klaus Schmoll > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 19:06

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You keep using the word “hearlded”. DAFUQ does it mean?

Also, a wall of words does not a valid opinion make.

DrJohannVegas > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 19:11

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HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 19:11

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The only new Japanese cars I would buy are, the Miata, because it is better than an old Miata in every way(though looks are debatable, the old happy, pop like having NA had its own charm that simply can’t be relpicated in a new car.) and also the Honda Fit because unlike the new Civic, the Fit is what a Civic should be, light, practical, cheap, AND fun.

The new Avalon is also pretty great. The new Accord lost my interest when it adopted the the new chrome unibrow, the CRZ.., still being made. The Ridgeline is a great ideal, but doesn't get the mpgs needs to win over most truck buyers.

dogisbadob > Sam 05/28/2016 at 19:11

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Toyota sells a lot more than 48k Camrys a year :p

smobgirl > Klaus Schmoll 05/28/2016 at 19:13

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You beat me to it.

Sam > dogisbadob 05/28/2016 at 19:18

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Grabbed it from Toyota Global’s site, but didn’t read that it was the number produced in Japan only.

428,000 in 2015, but my point still stands.

Berang > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 19:24

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I don’t know, I’d take a 370Z over a V8 mustang. Performance is about the same in most major respects, but the Nissan looks better and costs less. Of course if you compare to the V6 Ford, it performs better, but costs more. So whatever.

The cars are too damn large > not for canada - australian in disguise 05/28/2016 at 19:33

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It's totally a spam account, he said that the smoking tire drove his skyline too.

dogisbadob > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 19:37

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Fair enough, but Mazda does still sell the Miata, and it’s still reasonably-priced, especially considering it’s from a small company and doesn’t sell that well, and shares little with their other cars.

BTW, the 2ZZ was still available in 2006—in the same lot as that GTO.

I love Toyota, and they make great cars, but they are kind of old now. The Yaris which dates back to 2000 (Echo), and the Corolla dates back to 2003. It’s also worth noting that Toyota still does trucks well. Nissan’s Frontier still sells in good numbers despite being 10+ years old; people want a small truck that nobody else offers in the US anymore. Supposedly, Honda’s CEO doesn’t even own a car.

Subaru designed the FRS/BRZ, but with Toyota’s money (Toyota owns 25% of Subaru). The Civic Type-R is coming to the US next year. The V6 Accord is an underappreciated sleeper, and the Mustang pays homage to it.

Here’s what the Japanese can do to get their groove back:

Toyota needs to offer a Yaris XRS with either something like the 2ZZ, or a small turbo. A sunroof would be nice. They also need to offer a Corolla XRS with the same. The Camry XRS would be something like the old Mazdaspeed 6, this time with 300+ hp turbo-4 and AWD, and it could also be the basis for an ES-F.

Honda needs to offer the 1.0T I3 and/or the NA 1.8 in the Civic (available in other markets). Other than that, they’re doing OK with the Civic since we will be getting the Type-R. The Fit needs a hot version, too; perhaps it can get one of the Civic’s engines as an option. Bring back the Accord V6 manual 4-door (currently, the V6/stick is coupe-only), or better yet, switch out the Accord and TLX. That is, make the big US Accord an Acura, and the slightly-smaller TLX could be the global Accord. Drop the Accord coupe and just make a Prelude instead.

Nissan needs to sell the Micra in the US (they sell it in Canada). They will become really popular with a sub-10k car in the US. Offer a sunroof and a Nismo version with like 150 hp. Bring back the Sentra SE-R with like 250 hp. Make a new Altima SE-R with 300 hp. I own a 4th-gen Maxima, but the new one is superfluous, but perhaps it can be an Infiniti (this would be in addition to, not instead of, the Q50/G37). Speaking of the Q50, bring back the manual transmission.

The only problem with the Mirage is that it’s overpriced, at least according to the MSRP. If it started at $8995, it would be more successful. Of course they can offer a sunroof and a hotter version with 150 hp or so, and if they keep that under 17k, Mitsu will be back! Coupes are making a resurgence now, like the FRS/BRZ and Genesis that you mention. The Eclipse did well back in the day, and a new one would probably be really awesome too.

interstate366, now In The Industry > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 19:48

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promoted by the color red > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 20:52

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WHY CAN’T JAPANESE COMPANIES HEMORRHAGE MONEY TO R&D CARS THAT I WILL TOTALLY BUY USED WHEN THEY DEPRECIATE TO $5,000 IN FIFTEEN YEARS?

Companies like money. Developing stuff from scratch takes years of research, development, and refinement and that costs lots of money. If it’s only going to be five thousand people who want this upgraded engine & suspension package and are only willing to buy it when it’s at the bottom of the depreciation curve, well, it’s hard to justify that to the shareholders.

Plus I think Lexus kinda has it together. Jeremy Clarkson gave the new GS-F a glowing review and Car and Driver considered the IS better than the new 3-series.

Nauraushaun > Kanaric 05/28/2016 at 23:35

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All of this boils down to the slump in sports car sales after the 90s. Japan made reliable cars including sports cars, but then everyone stopped buying them so they defaulted back to just reliable cars.

America persevered because cheap muscle always has a place amongst Americans, but lighter cars with smaller engines are harder to sell in such a market.

Germany kept making cars of dubious reliability (such as the Golf you tout over the STi). But somehow the myth of German quality is stronger than ever so the Germans have continued splitting niches into sub-niches into sub-sub-niches, which includes a fast version of everything.

Hyundai have picked up the gauntlet, only because their strength is in cheap sale prices, so when they make a sports car its easier to sell. Japan historically commands a premium over Korean cars which makes it tougher for them to achieve sales in a dwindling market.

And therein lies the problem. Japanese cars aren’t at the cheap end of the market so much any more. They’re expected to have technical brilliance, hence the expensive GT-R, NSX and LFA. Toyota tried with the new 86 and where did it get them? Supposedly sales have been lackluster. You can forgive Nissan for not jumping in the same boat.

Furthermore, Nissan and Toyota have been getting worse as you say because that’s what the market wants. They want to be pampered and isolated from driving. We’re the minority here.

And don’t you dare compare this market to the malaise era!

Mercedes Streeter > Kanaric 05/29/2016 at 09:35

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Muahahahaha, that was the worst argument I’ve read since Nick Denton tried explaining his way out of any of the dumb things he does.

NJAnon > Kanaric 05/29/2016 at 18:14

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Thats a stretch going with Cadillac ATS line as a supposed successor, no?

I agree that car fans are in a era now that stinks to some degree. But this is how it is now. Some cars we feel that were glorified are gone and sometimes never to return.